A CIRCUS OR A FIGHT -the Diaz Controversy

[Straight_Crown]

Does Diaz get a PPV cut? I was never sure if all main event fighters got one or only certain fighters.

[lynchman]

Does Diaz get a PPV cut? I was never sure if all main event fighters got one or only certain fighters.

Some guys get a cut of every fight they have. Others get a cut when in main or co-main and many others get a cut if they have a title bout or main event. I would guess Nick gets a cut for all bouts. Not as much as bigger names, but a cut none the less.

[Straight_Crown]

Some guys get a cut of every fight they have. Others get a cut when in main or co-main and many others get a cut if they have a title bout or main event. I would guess Nick gets a cut for all bouts. Not as much as bigger names, but a cut none the less.

Seems to me that a very simple solution to this for Dana would be to take away his cut unless he participates in required press conferences, countdown shows, etc. Although that probably isn't possible if his contract states that he gets one. And if that is the case, then that's Dana's stupidity and he has nothing to bitch about. He gave Diaz the contract knowing his history when it comes to this sort of thing.

[marvin destin]

HA!! All this "debate", its meaningless, Diaz has a title shot. Thats ALL that matters.

But Cavebear, I thought that without hyperhype a fighter couldnt get anywhere.

And why is Diaz worth what he is?

Because of who he has beaten and what he has done.

And how he did it.

You dont have to have special events and frankly Im getting very tired,
as in "wheres my mute button" when I see a background piece come on the screen.
Thats when I STOP watching not start.

You are right, that IS all that matters, except in the UFC it matters to the people who allow you title shots.

In Diaz case they are forced to, not because nick has his own hype stuiff going. But again because of what hes done.
Just like Ruth
Just like Ali.

This is my point. Stop the distractions designed only to pretend certain things are what they say they are.
Like the fighters they keep as opposed to jettison.

[ocmmafan]

This thread is ridiculous.

The multi-billion dollar industry of MMA knows more about fighter marketing than you do, Marvin.

You irrational nonsense on page 1 regarding "only caring about the fight" is absurd. You watch LESS MMA than every regular on the board and admit you don't watch most events. Without marketing, you would never have any clue who any fighter is outside of reading fight finder on Sherdog, or reading about it here.

[marvin destin]

look at what Ronda Rousey has done to promote her fight this weekend. she had ESPN, HBO, and Showtime specials. She did both a UFC Primetime and a UFC countdown show. She has done interviews with tons of both MMA and mainstream media. she has done a hell of a job to promote this event, and as a result what was probably going to be a weak PPV buy number will likely be a strong buy. she is doing her job as a profesional fighter.

the media is everywhere now, much larger than before. its why most athletes have twitter accounts, and do interviews almost every day. its just a fact of life. there are also so many different television channels and entertainment choices these days, that it is more necessary than ever to be out in front of your potential audience as much as possible.

diaz complains about his pay all the time, he actually has some control over it, way more so than most people do, but doesn't take advantage like Ronda is.

and back to an earlier Pride argument by Marvin, Pride was in Japan, their press conferences took place in Japan, not the US. We don't have access to Japanese TV and radio, which is where their press conferences and media coverage took place.

So jasonkl, you now concede that there really was zero pre event publicity. Here.
OK, then how the sales? Here.

My point was you dont need hype to attract people to the real thing. Only the wish they were real things.

Rouseys case is very different because they are in the equivalent phase of developing womens MMA as the UFC was in 1997.

What Im seeing is an increasing demand to produce bigger and bigger ENTERTAINMENT as opposed to a sport.

The problem with that is the type of people you then must continue to attract to get the "numbers". ie
the know nothing fans interested only in car wrecks not great driving. And what that means
is you can expect ever more fluffy BS and more and more meaningless banter from talking heads etc.

I cant even watch the NFL channel and between the mindless "analysis" and ultra boring
interviews its drained any and all interest in the sport itself.
It replaces the sport with itself.

Throw in the chest beating and exhibitionist tendencies of now almost everyone
on the field and its becoming unwatchable. Like the NFL. of which Im a little confused
as per whether the guy throwing the ball to the oher guy is the game or is the game really
the time outs and replays and rules discussions on the sidelines before the awarding the ball
and the cost of a time out to the team that didnt throw the challenge flag. And while Im
wondering about that we have several mid game interviews with the coaching staff, an injured
player who cant play and a former coach who happened to showup for the AIDs hospice project.
During the game.

It creates attention seeking publicity hungry wannabes who know if they say
something stupid or crazy they wil contribute to ratings.

Things that go this way dont last. They become only this big thing replaced by the next big thing.

Like Is aid this is a very interesting discussion. Made more interesting by the fact that we are
agreeing on all the facts but we interpret them differently

Yes the media is everywhere.Who has let that happen. Who let it stop be something that
MMA used and turned into something that uses MMA.
As we saw years ago when the media made the baseball playoff
game be played in a driving rainstorm because thats when the game had to be played/.

[CaveBear]

I personally dont think the UFC is trying to sell this fight to anyone other than the hardcore or semi-hardcore fan and it does need to be sold to us. We ALL know Diaz doesnt deserve this fight. We are pretty much the only ones that even know GSP doesnt like Nick. Casuals dont even know whats going on concerning Diaz and these "interview" shows. Casuals will be watching this fight because its the return of GSP. Thats it. He could be fighting Clusterfuk McGee and folks would still buy the PPV and B-Dubs would still be packed simply because its Georges.

Dana has vilified Diaz, and we are all over it. I'm sold. I want Diaz to win more than ever now.

[jasonkl]

professional sports is a form of entertainment. thats why I watch football, boxing, baseball, basketball, and of course MMA. its to be entertained. if I think that the new movie coming out or the other show on tv will entertain me more than the UFC event or whatever MMA event, than I will watch the other program.

marvin, just accept that marketing is a huge piece for all types of entertainment including sports and specifically MMA. MMA is not any different from the NFL, MLB, Olympics, NBA, and every other sport which uses the media to hype up their events to get the largest audience to watch to maximize profitability. thats why there is insane amounts of media coverage for the super bowl, world series, olympics, etc... the goal is to make the most money possible. more viewers directly equals more money for everyone. sports is in the entertainment business, they have 2 real goals which are interrelated- entertain the fans and make money. the more fans you can entertain, the more money you can make.

[Brian]

Interesting discussion.
I say the game doesnt need all the hype. They simply need to keep the fights exciting
ands the fighters who do that will get a rep from accomplishment as opposed to hype.

We had the game without the hype, for over a decade. We had exciting fights during that time. And we had nobody watching.

Then they added reality show drama, pro-wrestling swagger (and even a pro wrestler or two), and huge media blitzes, and now the UFC airs live on Fox.

Now that's not to say exciting fights aren't important. You can sell someone on sizzle a couple of times, but if the steak's tough they'll stop coming back. But without the sizzle they don't come in to begin with.

People assert the game cant live without superfluous BS.

I'm not saying that. I'm talking about thriving, not surviving. Cut the BS and the UFC still does enough numbers to survive, but their bottom line takes a huge hit.

I provide specific examples that counter that argument.
No one refutes the points I raise, but then.
But insist on raising points that support my very argument.
yet conclude from their points that my argument is proven wrong.

I'm not sure if this is directed to me or not.

Brian-check out the ratings of TUF 1 versus TUF 2.
It wasnt the Leben acting out that created the ratings.
It was the G/B fight.
It was word of mouth.
It was something that happened that was real.

Had TUF 1 not done well, there wouldn't have been enough people watching the Finale to generate the word of mouth. It would have been the same hardcore fans who were watching anyway.

If it was the BS then the ratings of TUF would have continued to do nothing but grow.
They haven tbecause they have been producing mediocre fighters via the program based
farm system

And because the quality of the show continued to decrease and grow stale. It also became forced, it was clear that the producers were picking people to create drama, and the whole thing felt fake from about season 5 or 6 on. This is the first year in a long time where the whole hour is interesting, not just the fight.

[jasonkl]

So jasonkl, you now concede that there really was zero pre event publicity. Here.
OK, then how the sales? Here.

My point was you dont need hype to attract people to the real thing. Only the wish they were real things.

/.

pride did next to 0 business in the US. their model was all about Japan, and they had very limited exposure in the US. many of their cards weren't even available live in the US, I remember staying up late and just following the cards on online to read reports. when they were avaialble in the US, the PPV buys were horrible. When PRide finally had a card in the US, they did a bunch of press conferences here and did as much publicity as they could afford to do. the show still bombed, they did around 50-70k PPV buys or so. people didn't just buy the product because of the quality because most people didn't know about it.