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Thread: A CIRCUS OR A FIGHT -the Diaz Controversy

  1. #21
    MMAWeekly Elite CaveBear's Avatar
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    Diaz, and any other fighter thinkin they will ever see Mayweather money is fukin delusional. Not happening. I dont care whether he gets his "due" pay, I really dont, he can threaten to quit, no sweat off my back. See ya. Good luck in boxing. (he'd get fuked up anyway). I like the kid, I like his attitude, I personally think its funny. But if he and any other fighter walks away today, oh well.



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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_Crown View Post
    ^^^ You don't think Ali became the legend he is today because of his constant trash talking of his opponents to anyone and everyone that would listen? Of course his talent and skill in the ring is why people consider him the GOAT, but his mouth is what made him the big money. He got people that weren't really interested in his fights to become interested, and those who already were interested became even more interested. Everyone wanted to hear what he had to say next.

    People knew who Babe Ruth was because baseball was without a doubt the biggest sport in the country at the time, and he was the biggest name, on the most well known team in the sport. MMA coverage today is nowhere near what MLB coverage was in Ruth's day. He didn't need 24/7 type shows because the national media covered him on a daily basis. So that comparison is invalid.

    As for Diaz, nobody is saying he shouldn't be able to fight because he doesn't want to do the shows or press conferences. What they are saying is that Nick is constantly crying about how he wants more money, but then refuses to do the things that will help him achieve that. Whether he likes it or not, self promotion is a part of being a professional fighter.
    Anything Ali did didnt include all the hype BS that the "modern" MMA game includes
    that is being referred to in this discussion as all important./ I can say that for a simple reason.
    There wasnt all the extra stuff they say is irreplaceable today. Ali basically had Howard Cosel in the ring after his fights and he had his fights. that was it. people dont want to see your fight because
    you give good reality show or good "INside MMA interviews". They didnt even broadcast weighins anything like they do today.
    Now you would think the weighin is a separate event of importance. If the UFC has their way they'' sell Luxury box tickets for the weigh ins.

    And the sad part is after you pay $25,000 to be close to the scale youll get a moonwalk fight because no one will want to risk getting off the path to a title shot.

    Your comment about the magnitude of coverage of baseball compared to todays MMA you happen to be wrong.

    They hardly had magazines in Ruths day.
    They had ZERO TV.
    Sportswriters covered Ruths games not his personal life.
    The "daily" covergewas the game reports. period.

    Thats exactly what Im saying. Ruth didnt get famous because he was hyped beyond belief. He got his legend because they DIDNT have all the stuff. Ruths legend occurred because of word of mouth.
    2/3 of the entire country knew all about Ruth even though he never played a meaningful game west of the Mississippi River.
    He was never o TV in his career. No one SAW Ruth play except live.
    Maybe some off speed grainey newsreels of him circling the bases.
    They knew because of his REPUTATION which i fact was bigger than the media can make a player today.
    Today they create the reputation which is all based on speculation as opposed to accomplishment.
    The best PP fighter wasnt based on a poll like it is today.
    It was based on a guy actuall FIGHTING people in more than one division.
    If you didnt do that no amount of opinion could replace actual doing it.
    Last edited by marvin destin; 02-18-2013 at 06:42 PM.

  3. #23
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    Marvin, Ali basically invented the promotion that the UFC uses today, Dana white would be one of the first people to give Ali the credit. He had tons of interviews with cosel leading up to fights, do you remember prior to the rumble in the jungle where Ali had a toy gorilla and was calling Frazier a gorilla as he beat up the toy? Prior to the Liston fight he talked crazy **** every time he had an opportunity to do so.

    Media is much larger now than it was 40 years ago, but if Ali were in his prime today he would be everywhere, he would have had the 24/7 shows before de la Hoya and may weather did. He would be telling even more people how he is the greatest.

    The babe was also a larger than life character who was all over the media. Of course things were much different in the 1920s and 1930s when there wasn't even tv. Today, the biggest athletes do tons of media relations. If you want mma to be a mainstream sport than you have to accept media coverage

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonkl View Post
    Marvin, Ali basically invented the promotion that the UFC uses today, Dana white would be one of the first people to give Ali the credit. He had tons of interviews with cosel leading up to fights, do you remember prior to the rumble in the jungle where Ali had a toy gorilla and was calling Frazier a gorilla as he beat up the toy? Prior to the Liston fight he talked crazy **** every time he had an opportunity to do so.

    Media is much larger now than it was 40 years ago, but if Ali were in his prime today he would be everywhere, he would have had the 24/7 shows before de la Hoya and may weather did. He would be telling even more people how he is the greatest.

    The babe was also a larger than life character who was all over the media. Of course things were much different in the 1920s and 1930s when there wasn't even tv. Today, the biggest athletes do tons of media relations. If you want mma to be a mainstream sport than you have to accept media coverage
    Evereything you ares aying is true except yopu give the impression there were all kinds of fight related media interludes.

    The interview you refer to was possibnly the ONLY interview.
    Done on a saturday ABC Wide World of Sports.
    Ali was quoted in the paper. There was a segment in LIFE Magazine.
    Maybe one in Sports Illustrated as he prepared.
    Thats about it.
    Note NONE of these took him out of training.
    e DIDNT fly to manilla to do a press conference
    There was no bacjground hour long program on an interview with him in Zaire.
    THAT was what was expected of Nick Diaz, ie to fly to Canada for a press conference.

    Couldnt be done in California right?
    Can only be done 3000 miles away and take several days to do it.

    My goodness how did anyone know who Muhammad Ali was.

    He was known it was said in every country in the world.

    Earth to modern MMA game fans
    They didnt have a TV in 99% of the villages in Tanganyika

    The problem is the UFC wants to create the impression that IT is responsible for a fighter becoming worth alot.

    If that is true then why did the UFC offer Fedor an alleged 10 million bucks since now one could have known about him
    because he wasnt in the UFC. Didnt have the benefit of all the hype and PR. Right?

    A fighter MAKES his reputation.
    You are free to believe otherwise.
    And he does it in the cage without makeup.
    Except for GSP who uses grease.

    You want to blow up a mediocre fighter you have him PR'd up the butt.
    Have him on TUF pissing onto someones bed in the house.
    Then when he turns into a bordeline wackjob you still give him a big fight live on TV.,
    Call him all kinds of great things.
    Watch Joe Rogan praise his power and determination and even his massive
    skills and dont forget hes got a scary right hand that can knock you out at any moment.
    and who is so courageous hell take a fight anywhere anytime.

    You too can be a fan oh TV viewer.

    And then when a top tier fighter beats him up badly because he shouldnt have had that fight in the first place
    and woudnt unless they gave it to him.

    You would have Chris Leben.
    UFC product.

    THATS why they have the hype.
    Without it you cant turn mediocre fighters into rising superstars.
    until they fight the guyb who doesnt need any PR because of the record hes established.
    Last edited by marvin destin; 02-19-2013 at 12:44 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member sonzai's Avatar
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    How is this

    all that different from UFC Primetime? There's also a (since been pulled from youtube) documentary detailing both fighters' training for Ali x Holmes. Lots and lots of training and behind the scenes footage. The cameras were in the camps 24-7 for a couple of weeks prior to the fight.

    And if Ali didn't do the same media as UFC fighters are expected to today when he was really making his name(s) in the 60s, well, that's simply because it was a different media environment: 3 networks with 12-16 hours of programming per day at most. Half hour of news in the evening, of which sports was a small part. I'm not saying that this media environment is superior, it's just different. As others have written, if Diaz wants the Mayweather money, Diaz needs to do Mayweather sh1t.

    How did people in Zaire know who Ali was? They may have not had TVs, but they had radios, cinemas, newspapers. Ali was probably most famous outside of the US for a) converting to Islam and changing his name and b) refusing to fight in Viet Nam.

    Honestly, comparing media hype from even the 80s to today is apples and watermelons.
    The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart.
    -- Camus

  6. #26
    MMAWeekly Regular purekane's Avatar
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    That's racist.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonzai View Post
    How is this

    all that different from UFC Primetime? There's also a (since been pulled from youtube) documentary detailing both fighters' training for Ali x Holmes. Lots and lots of training and behind the scenes footage. The cameras were in the camps 24-7 for a couple of weeks prior to the fight.

    And if Ali didn't do the same media as UFC fighters are expected to today when he was really making his name(s) in the 60s, well, that's simply because it was a different media environment: 3 networks with 12-16 hours of programming per day at most. Half hour of news in the evening, of which sports was a small part. I'm not saying that this media environment is superior, it's just different. As others have written, if Diaz wants the Mayweather money, Diaz needs to do Mayweather sh1t.

    How did people in Zaire know who Ali was? They may have not had TVs, but they had radios, cinemas, newspapers. Ali was probably most famous outside of the US for a) converting to Islam and changing his name and b) refusing to fight in Viet Nam.

    Honestly, comparing media hype from even the 80s to today is apples and watermelons.
    Thank you for providing my case. Look behind Ali. Where is he. He is in his camp
    He isnt in Zaiere or anywhere else. Hes training. Diaz didnt want to go all the way to Canada for a cocktail party. BFD.
    For that hes piloried. They have tons of footage and such from past fights and events and interviews. let the fighters train.
    Leaver the fighetrs physically out of thh stupid social climbing my tickets closer than yours pissant atmosphere.

    You may be under contract but hes not a slave. Why is he expected to be chattel. Besides let the glamorous GSP get ALL the hype.
    soak in all the fluffy idolatry. Nick was being generous.

    All the Ali snippets were from his training camp. The things he said was shocking. And if Dana white wants to give Ali credit then lets do so. hes the person who killed sportsmanship in sport. His bigotry against a noble opponent and racist as hell treatment of Joe Frazier somehow gets a pass. THAT is how he promoted his fights. Props for doing that? And you really believ that is the objective in promoting MMA? we differ.

  8. #28
    Member ZuffaZombie's Avatar
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    Keep spinning, Marv. Keep spinning.

  9. #29

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    Marvin,

    I understand your point perfectly. At the end of the day, Diaz is high level in the core competency of being a fighter.

    The other stuff matters. Continuing the Ali example, Ali regularly traveled to do interviews; he was so prolific in the media that his relationship with Howard Cosell is legendary. That said, Ali's not really a fair comparison, if you expect every fighter to have Ali level media awareness, then there's maybe a half dozen "valuable" fighters in the UFC.

    That said, you simply can't ignore the role of press in helping the UFC achieve it's goals of maximizing PPV buys and thus revenue. Like every business in the US, the product is a means to an end, the end is making money. Diaz regularly complains about not being paid at a level he deems appropriate. Well for Diaz to make that money, he needs to help the UFC make the money.

    Most people aren't scouring the internet learning about fighters. Diaz has to put himself out there, and be visable, if he want's Joe Average to know who he is, and to care enough to spend a Saturday Night and $60 watching him.
    A Black Belt is just a White Belt who didn't quit.

  10. #30
    MMAWeekly Elite CaveBear's Avatar
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    Ali sold fights.



    STILL...100% Pure Hellbilly.

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