The Other Silver Linings

[Time Warner]

^ And there is a possibility that you are just trolling but I am oddly convinced that you are not.

[Baphomet3]

Don't get me wrong, I've read "For a New Liberty" by Lew Rockwell, and I understand the theory of the non-aggression very well and for the most part, I am totally in support of it. But overall, I support the system that our founding fathers created in regards to the size of government. The problem with today's system is that the government got out of control and I do not know the perfect, fail proof answer to prevent these things from happening. We should probably let the states decide. Would you agree? But I do not think that the original foundation of this nation is flawed, as much as we made the fatal mistake of not holding the elected and appointed accountable. How I see this situation; it is every generation's duty to preserve liberty and all that it takes is one lazy generation to throw it away. An informed citizenry is must for a functional society.

Jefferson and others pushed hard for a federalist anarchy. We got close. World banking. The power of crisis. Technology and corruption have pulled us far afield and the way back is unclear. As of now, I'd merely like us not to be so uncomfortable with notions of lawlessness. I'd like to kill the connotatons of the puritanical order under which no Bible meant no morals, no drug laws meant a nation of junkies, no pen on paper meant chaos and killing in the streets . . . we know now that none of that is so and spontanious order and social constructs provide ample framework for a fee and functioning society.

When you bring up child molestation, I am simply convinced that more creeps would come out of the wood-works if there was not any laws in regards to it. I don't have a link to provide you or anything, it is just my observation. Same with theft, it should be illegal if you ask me. I do not believe that if one guy is stronger than another, the strong man should be allowed to seize the other guys property freely. Not everyone can defend themselves, including a lot of very smart people could thrive but would not be able to.

Freely sieze property? Rape cooing babes as we so please? Take a shjt on Main St. and then put your tie on and go to work? Nothing happens? Cause without effect?

If you seized your neighbors house there would be no outrage, no backlash, no vengence, no shame, no professional ostracization, no tension at work and school, nobody would harrass your wife, kids, vandaize your car, no rocks through the window, no possee comes to take it back -- it just happens "freely" because there is no written law? So yes, I raped your kid, twice, but it's not explicitly illegal, thus you and those around you have no recourse. Just accept it. My employer will not be pressured or boycotted, my property will be respected, no harm will befall me and min, my life will continue as normal, because I'm sronger than a child and thus free to rape at will. Long may I live.

That's quite an imagination.

Laws cannot stop Hitler or Sandusky or Columbine or prostitution any more than a lack of laws will open some imaginary flood gate of baby rape epidemics and kiling sprees. Society functions as it will in spite of any effort to shape it from the carrot or the stick. Laws are illusions of control. They comfort us. Let's get tough on crime. How long until we say "never again"! As though we can write down the right combination of words and never see another child die, another addict waste away, another tragic rape or murder. And just imagine if those laws weren't in place!! Here beset the thundering hoards of rapists like some scene from World War Z . . . if only, if only someone would write down "stop, no, don't" and bang a gavel somewhere, that would surely save us all. Maybe try praying. That might help, too.

The wolves are ours to fight and tame. The government's inability to deal wth problems is a direct reflecton of our own reluctance to take on greater maturity and responsibility within our own communities and even in our own lives. Wouldn't it be nice if the elders, the hunters, the kings, the church, the state, Obama, whoever . . . anyone but ME, could fix this mess?

Understand that I am not challenging your position, I just feel that there are better answers than anarchy in regards to bettering society's problems. Every system will have its own unique problems, including anarchy, try not to get offended if it gets challenged a bit. There is nothing wrong with that. Overall, I truly believe that if we allowed states to govern themselves and even more so; we allow local communities and sheriffs to govern themselves, that is the best formula for growth and innovation.

There is no system or solution that can supplant social evolution - learing, evolving, adapting, fu@king up, trial and error, withot imposing force and thereby immorality upon a people.

[ocmmafan]

Noticed Oliver Stone shredding Obama in the Showtime docu-series he just put out. Probably more effectively and meticulously than I've seen any conservative do it. Impressive. Today read a piece where Glenn Beck admits he was wrong about Bush, wrong about the Patriot Act, openly questioning the invasion of Iraq, vows never to donate another dime to the GOP, and encourages listeners to look to the libertarian party or other 3rd parties for leadership because the two-party system is a beyond repair. Huh? Ok.

I've also read pieces that point out the mass of latin-american immigrants are overwhelmingly hard working, self employed/small business, family oriented, religious libertarians that will cause radical blow-back on the liberal agenda of mass amnesty for votes -- and what you'll end up with, after winning some fleeting favor over deportation fears, is 100 million new voters who think Rand Paul is going to make their little 8-man landscaping service a hell of a lot more profitable and easier to run than Mr. Obama will. I've never heard the world libertarian so much in my life as I have in the past 6 months.

A growing minority of citizens, pundits, and political leaders actually appear to have their heads on straight. It's easy to get depressed and disgusted when considering the state of things, but we've also got rabid, hyper-political cheerleaders suddenly turning and critisizing thier own parties, their own leaders, and looking elsewhere for inspiration. We've got states asserting their rights and challenging gay marriage laws, drug laws, and other mandates. States abolishing income tax. States looking at legalizing gambling and decriminilizing prostitution. Federalism, somehow, managing to thrive and evolve and expirament in spite of it all.

There is no doubt but that we'll end up a flaming heap of ruin, but I'm starting to think we might actually put up a fight on our way to the gallows.

Other examples of people pulling a 180* in recent months?

Hope for the future?

What say you?

I think there a lot of people fed up and that just want government, at whatever level, to leave them alone. I do think that's a good thing and agree the states that buck trend, be it on enforcing rules against illegal immigration, legalizing weed or voting for/against gay marriage, states are taking a stronger stance against the Fed.

I believe the vast majority of legal immigrants are hard working, beneficial to the country and don't share the lazy, entitlement attitude we see out of many of our own citizens. I totally disagree that the mass influx of illegal aliens benefit the country. No one can support a family of 5-7 people making 20K per year yet we have those families filling every border state. It's a huge strain on our social service structure and we are not close to digging ourselves out of the hole. Legalizing them won't change their earning potential and entices others to come - that is what history has shown us with the hundreds of thousand cental americans living here for the last 10+years under Temporary Protected Status (TPS) and the mexicans who snuck in and qualified under the 1st amnesty. Even if they are hard working, we are talking about millions of people that are essential peasants and that doesn't help a society progress.

[Time Warner]

Jefferson and others pushed hard for a federalist anarchy. We got close. World banking. The power of crisis. Technology and corruption have pulled us far afield and the way back is unclear. As of now, I'd merely like us not to be so uncomfortable with notions of lawlessness. I'd like to kill the connotatons of the puritanical order under which no Bible meant no morals, no drug laws meant a nation of junkies, no pen on paper meant chaos and killing in the streets . . . we know now that none of that is so and spontanious order and social constructs provide ample framework for a fee and functioning society.



Freely sieze property? Rape cooing babes as we so please? Take a shjt on Main St. and then put your tie on and go to work? Nothing happens? Cause without effect?

If you seized your neighbors house there would be no outrage, no backlash, no vengence, no shame, no professional ostracization, no tension at work and school, nobody would harrass your wife, kids, vandaize your car, no rocks through the window, no possee comes to take it back -- it just happens "freely" because there is no written law? So yes, I raped your kid, twice, but it's not explicitly illegal, thus you and those around you have no recourse. Just accept it. My employer will not be pressured or boycotted, my property will be respected, no harm will befall me and min, my life will continue as normal, because I'm sronger than a child and thus free to rape at will. Long may I live.

That's quite an imagination.

Laws cannot stop Hitler or Sandusky or Columbine or prostitution any more than a lack of laws will open some imaginary flood gate of baby rape epidemics and kiling sprees. Society functions as it will in spite of any effort to shape it from the carrot or the stick. Laws are illusions of control. They comfort us. Let's get tough on crime. How long until we say "never again"! As though we can write down the right combination of words and never see another child die, another addict waste away, another tragic rape or murder. And just imagine if those laws weren't in place!! Here beset the thundering hoards of rapists like some scene from World War Z . . . if only, if only someone would write down "stop, no, don't" and bang a gavel somewhere, that would surely save us all. Maybe try praying. That might help, too.

The wolves are ours to fight and tame. The government's inability to deal wth problems is a direct reflecton of our own reluctance to take on greater maturity and responsibility within our own communities and even in our own lives. Wouldn't it be nice if the elders, the hunters, the kings, the church, the state, Obama, whoever . . . anyone but ME, could fix this mess?



There is no system or solution that can supplant social evolution - learing, evolving, adapting, fu@king up, trial and error, withot imposing force and thereby immorality upon a people.

Ok, the whole imagination part is not my imagination or exactly how I see things. But let me explain.

So let's pretend that we live under full anarchy (not a constitutional republic or anything of that sort). So my first question is who owns our military? Would it be the first group that is strong enough to seize it. What laws do they have to be governed by with their new artillery, none I suppose? Or should we just develop laws as we go? Personally, I would rather have a document like the constitution as apposed to spontaneously making the rules. That is one of many big concerns.

My second concern is this: You and I agree that people would break off into groups and govern themselves. I totally agree that some groups would do a good job at it but others would not. Let me give you an example. The Muslim community. What many of them will do is isolate themselves and then establish Sharia law. Nothing will prevent them from doing so because they are free to create their own laws as they please. Perhaps a neighboring group will go to war with them over it, but most likely not. So imagine that you are a Muslim woman, born into this society. Should the Muslims be free to execute you because you had sex before marriage? Well, under full anarchy, they would be able to, unless someone goes to war with them, which will create a new problem altogether.

So being the Muslim woman, are you now more free because of Anarchy? No you are not. Others may be, but if you happen to be born in the wrong faction, then you may just be out of luck. Some do not want a free society, and without a document like the constitution ensuring their freedom, they will simply create their own laws with no limit to tyranny.

My idea, and the idea that America was founded on is a constitutional republic were no matter what you want, you are forced to be free. People can not just establish Sharia law, that violates individual freedom. We should have a government that is bound by the constitution, and they are not allowed to violate those rules either (including theft... IRS....). Does that make any sense or no?

The purpose of the constitutional republic is to achieve maximum freedom. That is the one and only goal, everything else should be sorted out by the free market. That is my view on things, that is my agenda, and I honestly believe that the best way to achieve it is through a constitutional republic, but even that will only work if we hold our elected officials accountable.

At the end of the day, even under Anarchy, there will still be a law of the land. We have two choices though, we can create documents like the bill or rights to ensure the freedom of everyone, or we can allow laws to be made with no guaranteed restrictions. It comes down to which system you think will generate maximum freedom.

[Time Warner]

I suppose Jackel was correct. I am a (classical) liberal after all. But that is much different than the modern liberal.