[QUOTE=Tapout2.2;1981233]Clemens was in the league two years before Bonds my man. Clemens won the cy young and MVP award in Bonds rookie year. Clemens deserves to be in. All three do.[/QUOTE
Clemens did start out his career hot, but he had some subpar years between 92 to 1996 where he was a sub .500 pitcher, all of a sudden after the steroid era started after the strike and McGwire and Sosa HR derby that Clemens was a 20 win pitcher again. Very suspicious.
And no cavebear, you don't have to fail a steroid test to know these guys were cheaters ala lance Armstrong. They cheat to not be caught cheating. Clemens, etc have big egos and lack integrity like Andy Pettite or Arod to admit that they juiced.
Last edited by BJPENNSTATE; 12-02-2012 at 01:42 PM.
Update: all 3 didn't get enough votes, better luck next year.
Sosa doesn't deserve to be in because the only thing he has going for him is a roid aided homerun total late in his career. Without the HR's he a joke.
The voting isn't over. I have no idea where you get your info from.
Originally Posted by BJPENNSTATE
we won't find out the results until january. i saw an unofficial poll of some voters, and they had around 45% for bonds, 43% for clemons, and like 25% for sosa or so.
to me, Bonds and Clemons are in the exact same situation. both were already arguably the best players of their generation prior to juicing. Bonds won 3 MVPs by 1993. he most likely started juicing in 2000 or 2001, and by that time he was already incredible.
Clemons won 3 Cy youngs by 1991, which for me made him a hall of famer at age 28. if we assume he started juicing when he joined the blue jays in 1997, he was already 192-111 with 3 20 wins seasons, 6 seasons with over 18 wins, and 7 seasons with 200 plus Ks. and he had 257 Ks his last year in boston with a 3.63 ERA. he was still pitching well, but wasn't the best anymore. he returned to greatness when he went to toronto
In some ways you are right. But what it comes down to is pitchers. If I were pitching at that level and he came up to the plate with that one just to get a slight advantage. He better make sure it covered he head aswell.
Originally Posted by ocmmafan
Now onto the question.
I hope Bonds and Rocket make it in. Sosa too( but not gonna happen ). Bonds and Roger both put up crazy ass numbers with and without the B12 shot. How can MLB hold that era against any player. Was there any rules than ..... so explain how it was cheating, cause if there was no rules it cant be cheating can it ? And before someone says it, **** the morals of it. You are talking about people who are competing with others to get a job. And choose to use PED's. to get ahead of the rest of the pack. who ****ing cares, people use things to get ahead all the time.
Now Sosa used PED's who cares, it wasn't cheating. Now corking your bat is a diffenert. There was rules about that, and that will be his down fall
If I had a vote it would go like this
None of them got in.
Next year is Morris's last year. That man needs to be in the HOF.
Were the writers so focused on not electing the cheaters that they forgot about the guy that hit over 3000 hits craig Biggio.
its weird how baseball records are considered to be so sacred and they care so much about PEDS, while nobody really cares that most of the 1970s Steelers teams that won a few super bowls were on roids, and tons of other football players. this is despite the fact that in football, players are smashing into each other and could permanently hurt other players.
in baseball, you are just trying to hit a ball over a wall, and added strength may help make it a little easier to do so. you are also trying to throw a ball fast enough with enough movement to make it very difficult for someone to hit it. steroids may allow you to throw it faster.
the biggest benefit that PEDs may have had in baseball was allow players to last much longer at a higher level than they probably would have. i don't think bonds and clemons would have been so good so late in their careers without PEDs.
back to the HOF. I think that Jack Morris may have gotten screwed by all of the attention made towards bonds, clemons, etc.. and PEDs. most guys who get 67% of the vote one year make it in the next year.
I also didn't see Bigio as a first ballot hall of famer (even though it makes no sense to me why someone isn't considered a HOFer one year but is the next). his overall numbers are definitely HOF worthy with his 3,000 hits, 600 doubles, and 400 stolen bases. His batting average was .284 with a .363 OBP and .433 slugging. very solid for a mostly 2nd basemen, but not amazing. he scored 100 runs 8 times. based on history, he should get in with the 3,000 hits, but i don't see him in the same class as a babe ruth, willie mays, hank aaron, or even jeter