+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 60

Thread: Secession petitions filed in 20 states

  1. #31
    MMAWeekly Regular Lord Garth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    11,302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CatSmasher View Post
    its not intellectually dishonest to ask questions and you shouldn't presume to know my motivations. Why would Obama buy votes in an area that he knows will not support his mandate?
    ^Intellectual dishonesty.

    Democrat voters are ignorant, stupid, and cannot look ahead into the future beyond the first of the month, but democrat politicians are Asiatic, forward thinkers who understand that the useless cockroaches on welfare are outbreeding the real people in all of the red states and within a generation will vote away all rights we have left

    Also: I do presume to know your motivations, and here's why





















    because you've elucidated them on numerous occasions, dumb ass, as have I mine. The difference between us is that you lack honesty, which is a typical difference between liberals and people of honor

  2. #32
    Senior Member Baphomet3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Twilight Grotto
    Posts
    9,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CatSmasher View Post
    I would like to see an overlay of program dollars spent, and see how that compares to your map Baph. I think it might help frame the discussion a little better.
    I've seen that map; bet you have too. How do you suggest that this overlay more accurately frames the argument?

  3. #33
    Member Supreme Commander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fort Wright
    Posts
    1,724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Linye View Post
    What's wrong with socialism?

    F.A. Hayek's work is a good starting point for the intellectually curious.



    An unimpeachable classic work in political philosophy, intellectual and cultural history, and economics, The Road to Serfdom has inspired and infuriated politicians, scholars, and general readers for half a century. Originally published in 1944—when Eleanor Roosevelt supported the efforts of Stalin, and Albert Einstein subscribed lock, stock, and barrel to the socialist program—The Road to Serfdom was seen as heretical for its passionate warning against the dangers of state control over the means of production. For F. A. Hayek, the collectivist idea of empowering government with increasing economic control would lead not to a utopia but to the horrors of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

  4. #34
    MMAWeekly Regular Lord Garth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    11,302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Supreme Commander View Post
    F.A. Hayek's work is a good starting point for the intellectually curious.



    An unimpeachable classic work in political philosophy, intellectual and cultural history, and economics, The Road to Serfdom has inspired and infuriated politicians, scholars, and general readers for half a century. Originally published in 1944—when Eleanor Roosevelt supported the efforts of Stalin, and Albert Einstein subscribed lock, stock, and barrel to the socialist program—The Road to Serfdom was seen as heretical for its passionate warning against the dangers of state control over the means of production. For F. A. Hayek, the collectivist idea of empowering government with increasing economic control would lead not to a utopia but to the horrors of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.
    Why isnt this book EVER mentioned in college?




























    <-------Waiting for some **** bird to spend 15 minutes googling, find a professor at one of the 3 Universities in the world that aren't fully communist who has mentioned it, and cry "pwnd"

  5. #35

    Default

    It takes a whole lot of knowledge to become a professor; none of it has to be true.

  6. #36
    Member CatSmasher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Pickering
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    If voter mandates dictate spending regionally, the argument for succession seems meaningful. If redistribution occurs across red and blue states the argument is less valid.

    So, if a voter base is not represented, and program spending is unbalanced, succession makes sense.

    I am not defending Obama, or democrats in particular as I am no fan of federalism. I just don't have all the details for the US context and thought someone could share it with me.

  7. #37
    Member CatSmasher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Pickering
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Garth View Post
    Why isnt this book EVER mentioned in college?






























    <-------Waiting for some **** bird to spend 15 minutes googling, find a professor at one of the 3 Universities in the world that aren't fully communist who has mentioned it, and cry "pwnd"
    I will find my syllabus from 2nd year political philosophy and then cry pwnd. Assuming it is still amongst the horde of paperwork I have kept for no good reason. If I can't I will take picture with my copy including my notes in the margin.

  8. #38
    Member CatSmasher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Pickering
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    Garth, I don't see where I have been dishonest, even in this context. I have not seen the map I asked about and was curious, if you found one it would only further your case.

    The differences between you and I are not so stark, and I don't think its fair for you to call me a coward because we have conflicting ideologies.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Baphomet3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Twilight Grotto
    Posts
    9,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CatSmasher View Post
    If voter mandates dictate spending regionally, the argument for succession seems meaningful. If redistribution occurs across red and blue states the argument is less valid.

    So, if a voter base is not represented, and program spending is unbalanced, succession makes sense.

    I am not defending Obama, or democrats in particular as I am no fan of federalism. I just don't have all the details for the US context and thought someone could share it with me.
    I see your point. However, a very, very large portion of the spending reflected in red state payouts is due to military bases, oil company subsidies, and farm subsidies. Libertarians, and to a growing extent conservatives, disagree with all of these programs as they are wasteful and problematic for a number of reasons. Another thing you see is that a good portion of the states, maybe 1/3rd, have an pay-in/pay-out ratio of roughly 1:1. So, why pay-in 4 billion to the fed to, in return, recieve 4 billion from the fed?

    The urge to revolt as reflected in these petitions is evidence of what many feel is rapidly becoming a heavy-handed centralized power that simply swoops in and takes over at the first sign of trouple, and also forces continental compliance with radically new and completely unclear programs dispite popular disapproval. Even with the re-election of Obama, his healthcare law is looking at a 49% disapproval number vs. 41% approval. Many of the big bank bail outs as well as TARP and the stiumuls bills and quantitative easing were even less popular and less clear, but railroaded none-the-less. It seems that a percentage of the population feels that the central powers on the east coast are attempting, rather successfully, to consolidate and fortify their control over the inner workings of the economic, regulatory, and legal framework of this nation in the face of popular and, at times, lively resistance.

    So, back to the map, it appears that a handful of dense urban centres and government/union industries are very much in control of our collective fate. One natural reaction to that is to attempt to, or express an interest in, reclaiming one's own fate.

  10. #40
    MMAWeekly Regular Lord Garth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    11,302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CatSmasher View Post
    Garth, I don't see where I have been dishonest, even in this context. I have not seen the map I asked about and was curious, if you found one it would only further your case.
    But here you inadvertently admit that you understand perfectly that the welfare crowd votes overwhelmingly for Obama, even in red states, yet you were playing dumb as if you didn't understand that; trying to attribute some sort of hypocrisy to red staters by implying that they hate welfare while being its primary beneficiary.

    That's a dishonest argument, and that's why I accused you of being dishonest.
    The differences between you and I are not so stark, and I don't think its fair for you to call me a coward because we have conflicting ideologies.
    Fair enough. many can call me a coward, and many do. "garth you fear PROGRESS!" Indeed I do, because i think we're progressing towards death camps

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts