Pacquiao vs Hatton..

[Jen Zwain]

Who do you like, and why?

[JBissell]

Pac Man... he is just a wee lad that has the heart of a lion

[Jen Zwain]

I think Manny has a great shot at beating Hatton..but the thing for me is if Mayweather Sr. is able to work magic with Hatton or not.

[jUrZiiRacist]

I really don't see Hatton winning this fight, even with Mayweather Sr.

[Cactaoki45]

Hatton is one of the most overrated fighters in the last 10 years. Pacquiao inside of 7

[KINGofLA]

24/7 is on right now. Love this series.


Pacman in 10.

[Left_Hook]

I'm cheering for Hatton, but I'm not laying any money down.

It's pretty clear that Mayweather Sr. has improved his game a bit, but I'm not sure if it is enough to beat PacMan.

Did anyone else notice the "Game Over Pacman" sign they had at Hatton's gym? Funny stuff.

[purekane]

What is up with Mayweather Sr.

flexing his old grizzled ass bird chest n'shit..

This aint about you,

ya old trout mouth nicca!!!

Sorry, had to vent. :o

In all fairness though, they did show a whole lotta Roach.

But, atleast he didn't get all shirtless n'shit.. :)

[Adrian]

Hatton is a bruiser man. But so is Manny.

Both fighters keep a furious pace. Honestly, it can go either way. I'm leaning a little towards Pacquiao though.

[KINGofLA]

What is up with Mayweather Sr.

flexing his old grizzled ass bird chest n'shit..

This aint about you,

ya old trout mouth nicca!!!

Sorry, had to vent. :o

In all fairness though, they did show a whole lotta Roach.

But, atleast he didn't get all shirtless n'shit.. :)

HAHAHA! That cracked me up.


But yeah... can a Mayweather ever take the back seat to anybody?

[stevemc]

Yeah saw that 24/7 program last night too, some good stuff.

Wow that poor guy who lives in Freddie Roaches gym. I got in a lot of knife fights, but I didnt have a knife?

[Spmack 2]

Hatton all the way....

Why?


Cos I'm English.....

[kingofthering81]

Manny is going to make Ricky look worse then Mayweather did. Pac Man TKO 8.

[yankees_suck]

This is goiing to be similiar to the PBF/ Hatton fight. Pac inside of 8, hes to quick.

[Shadyguy]

This is goiing to be similiar to the PBF/ Hatton fight. Pac inside of 8, hes to quick.

that's how i see it. I think Manny is too quick and has the tenacity to put Hatton away. Hatton is always dangerous tho and training with sr is sure to help him. It might go to a decision though.

[Cruz1014]

I think everyone is overrating Pac cause of Oscar. Hatton got beat by Mayweather at a weight he's not comfortable at. Hatton is at his best at 140 and Floyd SR. has made him even better. Too many people are sleeping on Hatton, this will not be easy for Pac. I'm tempted to put money on Hatton for a decision, the odds are really good for that i believe.

[Jen Zwain]

Here's my take on it....

IF Mayweather actually showed Hatton some defense instead of bullrushing and standing in close taking a beating..WATCH OUT.

Pacman has been caught with body shots before, and Hatton might do it again.

Paccy is fast, but Hatton isn't slow like old tired DLH either.

guess we'll find out Saturday night.

[boboplata2.0]

i noticed that their aren't any vids of hatton sparring & they only show him working the bag & the mitts. are they trying to show an illusion of speed to the viewers? pacman is still way faster, LOL!

[B_Amazing]

I think everyone is overrating Pac cause of Oscar. Hatton got beat by Mayweather at a weight he's not comfortable at. Hatton is at his best at 140 and Floyd SR. has made him even better. Too many people are sleeping on Hatton, this will not be easy for Pac. I'm tempted to put money on Hatton for a decision, the odds are really good for that i believe.

Good point!

Hatton is a more physical fighter than Oscar. Pacman fought an Oscar who tried to outbox which was a bad move because Pac is 100x faster. Hatton is going to look to rough him up.

Looks like Mayweather Sr. is taking Hatton to a whole new level. I was surprised when Mayweather said Hatton had no idea how to hit mitts. Now he looks super fast.

I'm taking Hatton in this one!

[Cruz1014]

Even Freddie Roach said he seen needle marks in Oscar at the beginning of the fight so he knew he was injected with IVs. So he obviously had a bad weight cut and it showed. Oscar is actually really fast, Pac would have been faster but not that much faster. Pac is getting his first real test outside of Lightweight with this fight. This will tell a lot.

[jolecore204]

I have to say....I wasn't too excited for this fight before I started watching the 24/7's.

I guess the show did it's job, because now I'm psyched for this fight!

[slik]

i noticed that their aren't any vids of hatton sparring & they only show him working the bag & the mitts. are they trying to show an illusion of speed to the viewers? pacman is still way faster, LOL!

i think they interviewed hatton during one of the HBO PPV matches and he had two black eyes from sparring.... looks like hes still not the good defensively.

[srdafish]

Hatton has no shot because he isn't a great boxer. He is a very good brawler, but you can't beat the best boxers in the world by being a brawler that has no boxing skill. Just won't happen, Pacman by KO in the 6th.

Also me picking Manny has nothing to do with the Oscar fight, Oscar hasn't been even decent in 4 years.

[Cruz1014]

Hatton has no shot because he isn't a great boxer. He is a very good brawler, but you can't beat the best boxers in the world by being a brawler that has no boxing skill. Just won't happen, Pacman by KO in the 6th.

Also me picking Manny has nothing to do with the Oscar fight, Oscar hasn't been even decent in 4 years.

I very much disagree with your last comment about Oscar. If you go back a little farther he looked great against Hopkins even though he lost by body shot, he looked very good up until that point. He shutout Forbes, even though he should've stopped the smaller guy he did blank him. Absolutely annihilated Mayorga which yes he's not a great opponent but Oscar did what he should against someone like that and that's kill him and that was the fight after a long layoff. I also thought the Floyd fight was a very close decision, i had it closer than most thought it was and that's Floyd, there's no shame in dropping a close decision to him especially when you're the one trying to make the fight. So i'm not sure outside of the Pac fight where he was dehydrated you get that he's looked so bad.

I have Pac in the 10th but a more competitive fight than most think ALTHOUGH Hatton will have to have an answer for his speed or he will get blown out. But i think he can make it a fight until later on when he gets stopped.

[srdafish]

If you think Mayweather/Oscar was a close fight you're either a) an Oscar fan or b) as blind as a bat. That fight was not close at all, Floyd won 9 rounds easy and played with him which cost him those other 3 rounds.

Oscar hasn't beat anybody that can be considered great in how long? He lost to Sterm or whatever his name was and got a BS decision. BHop let's everybody stay around because he puts all of his focus on defense and not offense. He has not done as much of that recently, but that was his game for years up to and including the fight with Oscar. Oscar wasn't close to winning that fight either, getting your ass handed to you in no way equals being in a fight.

[Cruz1014]

One judge had Oscar winning and the other two were only like a round or two for Floyd. That was not a blowout, Floyd was running most the time.

Felix Sturm was his first fight at Middleweight and he was fat going into that fight, a much different Oscar than the one who showed up against Hopkins and say what you will about Hopkins Oscar FOUGHT him, he didn't run, he stayed in the middle and fought and doing very well. Sounds to me like you're more of an Oscar hater.

[srdafish]

No I like Oscar, but that doesn't make me change what I see. Anybody that had Oscar close in that fight missed a lot of what happened, Floyd had him hurt twice before the 5th round and I think most people think Oscar won the rounds in which he got hurt, which is not how you score a fight.

[srdafish]

Side note, when talking about who actually won a fight the last thing you do to prove your right is say a judge had it the same as you, the judging in boxing is laughable at best.

[Cruz1014]

On most instances yes, but not all the time. I didn't say he had it like me i said he had him winning, all i said is it was close. Mayweather never had Oscar in trouble in that fight. Floyd was running in that fight, everyone i've ever talked to about that fight says the same thing until now. My point is you said Oscar has looked bad the last 4 years and that statement just isn't true as i pointed out.

[LethalStriker]

Manny is just too fast for Hatton, I see a 9th or 10th round stoppage.

[machete]

IMO Oscar suffered a lot that weight cut. he hasn't fought @ 147 in a loooooooooooooooooooooong time (2 or 3 years) he build a body for a 154 lb fighter. The weight cut fucked him up pretty bad + his biological and boxing age didn't help either.

[sparky204]

Hatton will win. I will say Round 5-6 TKO for Hatton.

[sparky204]

Hatton has no shot because he isn't a great boxer. He is a very good brawler, but you can't beat the best boxers in the world by being a brawler that has no boxing skill. Just won't happen, Pacman by KO in the 6th.

Also me picking Manny has nothing to do with the Oscar fight, Oscar hasn't been even decent in 4 years.

I disagree with this comment. Manny is much more of an Infighter than a Boxer. He comes forward constantly and looks to punish with combinations and a furious work ethic. Against a more pure techinical boxer like Oscar he can cause problems since the boxers cant get time and space to impose a game plan resulting in them getting overwhelmed and frustrated.

Hatton on the other hand is more of a hard hitting PUNCHER if you will. He has a tonne of heart and can end a fight off of one punch. With Manny pushing forward like he does and going after Hatton it is just a matter of time before he eats a big shot commiting the way he does in the pocket.

Just think of it like Frazier vs Foreman.

[Cruz1014]

My keys to victory.

Pacquiao- Use his new found boxing skills he's had since the 2nd Barerra fight and beat Hatton on the outside which he would with his speed which is the key to this fight. If he stays with that style he gets a late stoppage, i picked the 10th. He can KO Hatton with one shot.

Hatton- Make Pac come to him to throw him off. Every time Pac gets anxious or over aggressive, which this will cause, he goes back to throwing the same old right-left combo in which he lunges forward completely off balance reaching with his punches. This leaves him wide open for some nice hard counters from either side which he can get dropped with since he's already off balance. This is Hatton's best shot and if it's in their gameplan he can win a decision countering and frustrating Pac all day or maybe even catch him in the mid rounds with a hard shot but he would have to go for the kill when he gets up cause he won't finish him with one shot.

That's my breakdown of the fight. With that said i think Pac stops him in the 10th and a competitive fight early on, i just think Hatton will get caught up and too confident in a slugfest and get caught by the harder puncher.

[what the?]

I still like Pac by KO some where from 6-9, but something tells me it will be very competitive. It appears Hatton is more motivated for this fight than he was for Mayweather. He had a longer camp, and more importantly after the Malignaggi fight he didnt blow up to 2 bills like he usually does.

[War Munchies!]

I see Hatton going out and giving his very best in this performance but still losing.

I think he will bring it early on and the first 4 rounds will be pretty close. Pacman will start to takeover around the 5th when I think his power and speed will start to wear on Hatton.

I see a TKO for Pacquiao coming in the 9th after an exciting fight.

[purekane]

It's on muthafuccas!!!

I love a good fight I hope Hatton can do something

that makes us all just go, damn!!!!

But, Pacman is my dog in this fight..

Game face ---> :mad:

[Cruz1014]

Winner will probably face winner of Mayweather/Marquez July 18th since it's official now probably around November. I actually want Hatton to win unless those fans irk me again, and i'll be rooting for Marquez cause he's been a favorite boxer of mine for a long time. But on the other hand i want a Pac vs. Mayweather fight badly! The weight won't be an issue cause Manny will go to 147 with no problem. Mayweather won't be rusty after fighting Marquez that's for sure and same with Pac fighting Hatton. I just want Mayweather to show what a true p4p king is and i can't stand him actually i just don't like guys being called p4p best when they're not. Marquez is and he'll lose it to Mayweather i'm sure then he'll top it off with beating Pac.

[slik]

Winner will probably face winner of Mayweather/Marquez July 18th since it's official now probably around November. I actually want Hatton to win unless those fans irk me again, and i'll be rooting for Marquez cause he's been a favorite boxer of mine for a long time. But on the other hand i want a Pac vs. Mayweather fight badly! The weight won't be an issue cause Manny will go to 147 with no problem. Mayweather won't be rusty after fighting Marquez that's for sure and same with Pac fighting Hatton. I just want Mayweather to show what a true p4p king is and i can't stand him actually i just don't like guys being called p4p best when they're not. Marquez is and he'll lose it to Mayweather i'm sure then he'll top it off with beating Pac.

Where do you get this hate for Pacman? You might be the only person i know that doesnt have Pac as the number one P4P fighter. Is it just blind hatred? You putting Marquez ahead of pac is like ranking Rampage over Forrest after he beat him. Yes it was close, yes it was split decision, but Forrest/Pac got the win and theres no justification in ranking the loser over the winner.

[Cruz1014]

Where do you get this hate for Pacman? You might be the only person i know that doesnt have Pac as the number one P4P fighter. Is it just blind hatred? You putting Marquez ahead of pac is like ranking Rampage over Forrest after he beat him. Yes it was close, yes it was split decision, but Forrest/Pac got the win and theres no justification in ranking the loser over the winner.

There is when you believe Marquez won both meetings, its as simple as that. I'm not an official ranking for boxing so i can make it how i wish and i don't have to respect bs decisions. Therefore Marquez beat Pac twice makes him #1 in my p4p book. Now he'll lose that when and if Floyd beats him but for now he's the best in my book. He also got raped a decision against Chris John overseas with the home cookin' judging, everyone that seen that fight knows that. By the end of the year there will be no debate cause they're all fighting each other like it should be.

[slik]

There is when you believe Marquez won both meetings, its as simple as that. I'm not an official ranking for boxing so i can make it how i wish and i don't have to respect bs decisions. Therefore Marquez beat Pac twice makes him #1 in my p4p book. Now he'll lose that when and if Floyd beats him but for now he's the best in my book. He also got raped a decision against Chris John overseas with the home cookin' judging, everyone that seen that fight knows that. By the end of the year there will be no debate cause they're all fighting each other like it should be.

If you thought that was BS decision then your hate for Pac is too overwhelming thats its not even worth debating. Both fights were extremely close and couldve gone either way. NEITHER fighter was a clear cut winner in both fights and anyone that said PAC or JMM won that fight 100% is letting their personal views affect the way the see fights. Alot of expert tought Manny won, alot of experts thought JMM won, but as fat as i know, no expert is calling this a "BS" decision as it couldve gone both ways.

[Cruz1014]

If you thought that was BS decision then your hate for Pac is too overwhelming thats its not even worth debating. Both fights were extremely close and couldve gone either way. NEITHER fighter was a clear cut winner in both fights and anyone that said PAC or JMM won that fight 100% is letting their personal views affect the way the see fights. Alot of expert tought Manny won, alot of experts thought JMM won, but as fat as i know, no expert is calling this a "BS" decision as it couldve gone both ways.

He won the first couple rounds int he first fight then got taken to school, he lost that fight even with those knockdowns. The second fight he had his spots too but Marquez once again out boxed him and everyone i respect their views like a Teddy Atlas or Kellerman had Marquez winning. One of the other most respectable guys is Dan Rafael and he said he thought Marquez won both fights. That's enough for me to know i probably seen right. Like i said Marquez is #1 on my list.

[lil j]

I had pacman winning the 1st JMM fight, and losing the 2nd.
In no way did JMM take pac to school in the first fight, and I thought the draw very favorable to JMM. Many of those rounds could of gone either way, but imo Pac definitely won the first fight.

[LethalStriker]

Can't wait till November when Pac Man knocks Floyd's jab and run ass out.

[BarneyRubble]

Can't wait till November when Pac Man knocks Floyd's jab and run ass out.

That's not happening so make sure you are just waiting, not holding your breath :D

[TitoOrtizIsAPunk]

Pac Man > Floyd

Pac Man by TKO!

Cruz is a Pac Man hater. :)

[Cruz1014]

I had pacman winning the 1st JMM fight, and losing the 2nd.
In no way did JMM take pac to school in the first fight, and I thought the draw very favorable to JMM. Many of those rounds could of gone either way, but imo Pac definitely won the first fight.

No way dude. He was completely outclassed after those first couple of rounds. He did the same right left combo and it worked early but then Marquez adjusted and countered it every time. I'm sure he might have landed it a couple times more but nothing like early on, Marquez owned the rest of that fight. Then in the 2nd fight he came with more boxing skills than he had in the first fight and STILL got outboxed. Marquez is just better.

I'm not a fan of Pac but i'm not a hater either. If he can beat Floyd i will have nothing to say, he'll be the man. IF Floyd beats Marquez.

[BarneyRubble]

Pac Man > Floyd

Pac Man by TKO!

Cruz is a Pac Man hater. :)

I will sig bet you if Pac v Floyd happens good sir.

[War Munchies!]

I'm starting to think Pacman really might beat PBF.

[BarneyRubble]

I am impressed as all hell with Pac's speed, but I still have a strong feeling he's gonna hit alot of air against Money.

[Ninja Style]

I really like Manny and he has looked unstoppable recently but PBF has the perfect style to derail him.

[boboplata2.0]

No way dude. He was completely outclassed after those first couple of rounds. He did the same right left combo and it worked early but then Marquez adjusted and countered it every time. I'm sure he might have landed it a couple times more but nothing like early on, Marquez owned the rest of that fight. Then in the 2nd fight he came with more boxing skills than he had in the first fight and STILL got outboxed. Marquez is just better.

I'm not a fan of Pac but i'm not a hater either. If he can beat Floyd i will have nothing to say, he'll be the man. IF Floyd beats Marquez.

i'm getting tired of typing this, but here goes:


pacman floored marquez 3x in rd1. that should be an automatic 10-6 on a score card since the 3kd rule is not in effect. an ignorant judge gave it 10-7 making it a draw. this judge apologized for his mistake but the decision was final & cannot be overturned(unlike the barrera/juarez fight,wtf!?). there.

[jasonkl]

I had Manny winning the first fight by a point because I scored the first round 10-6, and scored the second fight a draw.

Paquiau is also much improved since both of those fights, especially the first one. He was still basically a one handed fighter with little defense, but amazing speed and power. He now is almost as dangerous with his right as he is with his left, kept his speed but is more accurate, kept his power but appears to hit even harder again because of his improved accuracy, and made tremendous improvements with his defense.

His recored against future hall of famers in amazing. He is now 7-1-1 with 5 KOs over Barera, Morales, Marquez, Oscar and Hatton.

Those 5 fighters have a combined record of 247-25-2 and have lost by (t)KO 7 combined times (although Barerra oficially was only TKOd by Manny, he really lost by TKO to Junior Jones even though the official ruling was DQ) So you could say they were really (t)KOd a combined 8 times.

That means that out of their 264 combined fights they had against anyone not named Manny Paquiau, they had a record of 246-18-1 for a winning percentage of 93%. They lost by (T) KO 3 times in those fights meaning they lost by (t)KO in 1% of those fights.

Their combined winning percentage against Manny is about 11%, and they lost by t(KO) in 55% of their fights against Manny. That is just unbelievable

[Cruz1014]

i'm getting tired of typing this, but here goes:


pacman floored marquez 3x in rd1. that should be an automatic 10-6 on a score card since the 3kd rule is not in effect. an ignorant judge gave it 10-7 making it a draw. this judge apologized for his mistake but the decision was final & cannot be overturned(unlike the barrera/juarez fight,wtf!?). there.

I'm not sure why you're using the judges for this argument. They also gave Pac a split win the 2nd fight which all respectful boxing reps disagreed with. The one judge had a wide margin win for Marquez in the first fight, why not bring that up? I don't care about an error i disagreed with them to begin with.

Jason while those names look great on his record, he lost to Morales the first time then beat him twice when it became obvious he was done and well past his prime probably due to the Barrera wars. He beat Barerra the first fight when Barrera tried to go in and brawl with him cause no one really knew much about him. That was a good win regardless. The second win over Barrera was again against a beat up, old, and washed up Barrera. And like i previously said myself and most respected boxing experts in the sport had him losing twice to Marquez, so when you break it down it's not that impressive. He also took out an old dehydrated Oscar and a dumb charge forward overrated Hatton. He did do those in impressive fashions though but still. He fights and beats Mayweather, he's the man. Or even a Cotto or someone in their prime that's a good fighter. Even Mosely, while not in his prime has looked great and a win over him would be great.

People can call me a Pac hater all they want, but my breakdown is nothing but facts. he just has to prove more to me before i put him on a pedestal of greatness.

[slik]

I'm not sure why you're using the judges for this argument. They also gave Pac a split win the 2nd fight which all respectful boxing reps disagreed with. The one judge had a wide margin win for Marquez in the first fight, why not bring that up? I don't care about an error i disagreed with them to begin with.

Jason while those names look great on his record, he lost to Morales the first time then beat him twice when it became obvious he was done and well past his prime probably due to the Barrera wars. He beat Barerra the first fight when Barrera tried to go in and brawl with him cause no one really knew much about him. That was a good win regardless. The second win over Barrera was again against a beat up, old, and washed up Barrera. And like i previously said myself and most respected boxing experts in the sport had him losing twice to Marquez, so when you break it down it's not that impressive. He also took out an old dehydrated Oscar and a dumb charge forward overrated Hatton. He did do those in impressive fashions though but still. He fights and beats Mayweather, he's the man. Or even a Cotto or someone in their prime that's a good fighter. Even Mosely, while not in his prime has looked great and a win over him would be great.

People can call me a Pac hater all they want, but my breakdown is nothing but facts. he just has to prove more to me before i put him on a pedestal of greatness.

The same old and washed up Barrera that gave Marquez all he could handle and if it wasnt for the ref calling it a slip, Barrera shouldve won it?

[jasonkl]

cruz, you are a hater, but a pretty informed one.

I am not going to go back and forth with arguments about the MArquez fights, which we probably only see about 1 or 2 points differently since I had Manny winning the first by a point and scored the second one a draw. And Marquez is great too, he is without question a first ballot hall of famer, and has probably proven himself to be better then morales and barrera. Almost everyone has him ranked #2 PFP right now.

Morales looked great heading into the 1st Pac fight with awesome performances against Carlos Hernandez and Jesus Chaves followed by the 3rd classic with Barrera. He did look like shit againt Raheem in the fight between the 1st and 2nd Pac fights, but nothing like a guy who would get destroyed by Pac. barrera was coming off of a more competitve loss to Marquez going into the rematch with Pac, and Barrera really just fought to survive in the 2nd manny fight.

Besides all of that, you must admit that Pacquiao looks to have improved greatly over the past few years. Can you at least say that his right hand is much better then it was when he fought most of the fights against the Mexicans, and that his defense is also much tighter?

I really hope Mayweather beats Marquez though to set up Manny-Floyd. I always though Floyd would win that fight relatively easily because of his superior size,defense, and overall skills, but am not so sure anymore. I don't think he will have much of a size advantage, and both guys would probably weigh about the same fight time. I don't think Floyd ever gets much heavier then 150-155. I would call the winner the best fighter of this generation, although Hopkins should also be included in the discussion

[slik]

Youre down-playing of Pac's accomplishments is making it obvious that you're just a plain Pac hater. So you're saying that Pac's accomplishment is not impressive but Maywearher, who beat the same over- rated hatton , the same old ODLH, an old Castillo (who he lost to), and the over-rated Judah? I would take Pac's record over Mayweather over the past 3 years anyday.

I agree that many (not all like you claimed) had JMM winning the second fight but I have yet to hear them say the decision was "BS". Its pretty clear all thought that it couldve gone either way. Not to mention ALL respected rankings has him number one, including those who think JMM won the second fight, has Manny #1.

So you're saying that JMM could lose to PBF but still be a great boxer, but if Pac loses to him then he'll be "over-rated"? That's the definition of hater right there.

[Cruz1014]

The same old and washed up Barrera that gave Marquez all he could handle and if it wasnt for the ref calling it a slip, Barrera shouldve won it?

I'll just respond in order. What are you talking about 'should've won'?? That fight wasn't even close on the scorecards. lol

Jason i said a while ago that Pac has improved dramatically skillwise. His problem is he reverts back to the same old combo when he gets anxious. But yes he is a better fighter than he was in the past, there's no debating that.

Slik i called that Hatton Floyd fight for what it was, an exposure of Hatton even before it happened. Don't even try to compare an IV using, drained Oscar to the Oscar that fought Floyd at a higher weight. Oscar got that fight at 154 which made a hell of a difference, he hadn't fought at 147 in almost 8 years before that Pac fight! He was at 142lbs more than a week out from the fight and needed an IV right before the fight. Obviously that's a whole different fighter. Castillo was 'old' in 02?? That's news to me. Judah was his 2nd fight at 147. Name one person outside of Tszyu who landed one shot in the 2nd, has ever dominated Judah??? No one. Cotto got him but Judah landed repeated uppercuts and hurt him. Judah is real fast and a problem for everyone, his cardio is his downfall. Those rankings have to recognize the Pac win over Marquez cause that's what it says even if they don't believe it. Which is why i said i can have Marquez #1 cause i'm not an official ranking for anything and can judge by what i seen.

I also never said anyone losing to Floyd would discredit them as being good. Marquez would still be a great boxer, yes. Pac losing to Floyd would only show he's not on his level and not as great as everyone thinks he is because people are actually thinking he can win that fight. With that said, if he fights Floyd and has a very competitive fight, then he can still prove he's great with that. But that's why i said i have to see him in with someone like that or some other names i mentioned to see where he really stands before i say he's so great. That was the reason for my breakdowns of his history. He'll have his chance to prove me wrong but until then i don't think he's as great as everyone else.

[boboplata2.0]

cruz, i had manny winning the 1st fight & ready to accept a draw in the worst case scenario. on the 2nd fight i thought marquez should've gotten the decision.

[slik]

Cruz did you actually watch the Barrera/Marquez fight? That was a really close fight... Two judges gave it to Marquez 116-111.... Marquez was KD on the 7th and that round shouldve been a 10-8 round for barrera instead, it was a 10-8 round for Marquez because of bad reffing. That's a 4 point swing right there. Marquez wouldve still won but don't act like Marquez dominated that fight. Anyone who saw it thought it was a good even COMPETITIVE fight.

[Cruz1014]

Cruz did you actually watch the Barrera/Marquez fight? That was a really close fight... Two judges gave it to Marquez 116-111.... Marquez was KD on the 7th and that round shouldve been a 10-8 round for barrera instead, it was a 10-8 round for Marquez because of bad reffing. That's a 4 point swing right there. Marquez wouldve still won but don't act like Marquez dominated that fight. Anyone who saw it thought it was a good even COMPETITIVE fight.

Yea i remember it well cause i was telling everyone Barrera wasn't going to win that fight leading into it. It was competitive but there was no doubt who won that fight. Why didn't you mention the 3rd judge who damn near had a shutout for Marquez? Barrera fought but Marquez showed he was better at everything even if Barrera fought his ass off. Their styles are similar so you're going to get that kind of fight every time.

You can't say it was a 4 point difference because Barrera STILL lost that same round, he was getting his ass handed to him before that ONE punch. He didn't dominate that round at all he got dominated. And the point he lost was extremely justified. Marquez's gloves were touching the canvas and Barrera even stood over him a couple seconds before throwing a blatant illegal punch, obvious signs of frustration.

[slik]

Yea i remember it well cause i was telling everyone Barrera wasn't going to win that fight leading into it. It was competitive but there was no doubt who won that fight. Why didn't you mention the 3rd judge who damn near had a shutout for Marquez? Barrera fought but Marquez showed he was better at everything even if Barrera fought his ass off. Their styles are similar so you're going to get that kind of fight every time.

You can't say it was a 4 point difference because Barrera STILL lost that same round, he was getting his ass handed to him before that ONE punch. He didn't dominate that round at all he got dominated. And the point he lost was extremely justified. Marquez's gloves were touching the canvas and Barrera even stood over him a couple seconds before throwing a blatant illegal punch, obvious signs of frustration.

Let me get this straight, Marquez beats barrera in a competitive fight it was because of style. Manny absolutely dominates Barrera that same year, he old and washed up? Just admit you're a Pac hater and get this over with.

I remember we had the same picks before. I, as well as many of the so called experts, picked ODLH to beat Pac and we both had Pac winning close decision over Hatton. It didn't happen. Pac absolutely dominated both fighters. He deserves all the praise he's getting.

(He's not out there claiming to be the GOAT, he's not out there calling himself the "Mexican Killer" which is kind of nice refreshing change to previous P4P kings.

[Sessoms]

I was pulling for Hatton because I dont like Pac but I figured he would win and he impressed me with the way he dismantled Hatton early!

[OliG83v.2]

That was pretty scary!

The 1st knock down, Hatton set himself to throw his left and Pacman saw it and threw his own punch (that connected) before Hatton had even managed to half throw his! Then Hatton's left swinging through added to the punch from Manny and pretty much dragged Hatton to the floor!

On a side note, I decided to go along with Freddie Roach's prediction of "inside 3 rds" but got a bit carried away and put £15 on Pacman KO, 3rd round! Would have won nearly £400!!!

I literally finished saying: "As long as Hatton doesn't walk onto a bomb here, I think I'll win my money!" when Pacman detonated that one on him! FUCK, I was SO annoyed! Not because Ricky lost (thought he would!) but because Manny could have done the decent thing and waited for the 3rd round!

[Cruz1014]

Let me get this straight, Marquez beats barrera in a competitive fight it was because of style. Manny absolutely dominates Barrera that same year, he old and washed up? Just admit you're a Pac hater and get this over with.

I remember we had the same picks before. I, as well as many of the so called experts, picked ODLH to beat Pac and we both had Pac winning close decision over Hatton. It didn't happen. Pac absolutely dominated both fighters. He deserves all the praise he's getting.

(He's not out there claiming to be the GOAT, he's not out there calling himself the "Mexican Killer" which is kind of nice refreshing change to previous P4P kings.

Styles make fights, don't tell me that's the first time you heard of it? Manny did beat Barrera but not like the first fight and you're referring the to 2nd fight. Barrera went the distance with both but Marquez and Barrera fight almost identical so it would be extremely rare to see either guy ever blow the other out but yes he was past his prime then. You're reaching for me to be a hater when i've broken down everything as much as can be broken down. Yet you keep ignoring the fact of the names i said i would like him to beat, at least one of them, in order for me to call him a great fighter. And i never mentioned him being cocky or full of himself.

As for Oscar no one counted the intangible of Oscar coming in like he did or Hatton coming in like a train wreck head on with no respect. With that those results were no brainers.

[boboplata2.0]

As for Oscar no one counted the intangible of Oscar coming in like he did or Hatton coming in like a train wreck head on with no respect. With that those results were no brainers.

is it that hard to give pacman the credit he deserves? LOL! this statement only proves that your hatin'.

[LethalStriker]

Cruz you're a Pacquaio hater just admit it, you refuse to give Pac Man any credit whatsoever. Every time he beats a big time fighter it's because that guy came in like shit and not because Manny came in looking great. It's one thing not to be your favorite fighter but in the light of seeing him dominate you should at least give him credit for said domination.

[slik]

Styles make fights, don't tell me that's the first time you heard of it? Manny did beat Barrera but not like the first fight and you're referring the to 2nd fight. Barrera went the distance with both but Marquez and Barrera fight almost identical so it would be extremely rare to see either guy ever blow the other out but yes he was past his prime then. You're reaching for me to be a hater when i've broken down everything as much as can be broken down. Yet you keep ignoring the fact of the names i said i would like him to beat, at least one of them, in order for me to call him a great fighter. And i never mentioned him being cocky or full of himself.

As for Oscar no one counted the intangible of Oscar coming in like he did or Hatton coming in like a train wreck head on with no respect. With that those results were no brainers.

please enlighten me with this "style makes fight" theory of yours.

Fact is, Barrera's style is made to beat someone like Pac. Barrera has always been a counter puncher with one big shot can end the fight. According to you, Pac is predictable which is ofcoarse a counter puncher's dream. It is much easier to counter a predictable brawler like Manny (according to you) than to counter someone as technically sound as Marquez.

Hatton came in moving forward against Manny---- fact
Hatton came in moving forward against PBF------- fact

Hatton has done the same shit in all his fights yet you still fail to give Pac some credit with the BEATING he gave Hatton. NO ONE prior to the Manny fight has made Hatton look that amateur. Not Paul M, not PBF.

How can you claim to be expressing facts when the basis of your argument is that Pac lost to Marquez twice which is guess what, you're OPINION!

[lil j]

Cruz you'll forever be known as the pacman hater. For you to say he's not a "great fighter" makes you a hater, and you saying he was "outclassed" in the first Marquez fight further proves that you are. Don't be ashamed man, we all have those fighters we love to hate. You just happened to hate one of the most exciting, hardworking, sensible, down to earth fighters in the sport.

[Cruz1014]

is it that hard to give pacman the credit he deserves? LOL! this statement only proves that your hatin'.

How exactly is that???? Are you saying either of my statements weren't true?!

Lethal- "Cruz you're a Pacquaio hater just admit it, you refuse to give Pac Man any credit whatsoever. Every time he beats a big time fighter it's because that guy came in like shit and not because Manny came in looking great. It's one thing not to be your favorite fighter but in the light of seeing him dominate you should at least give him credit for said domination."

This is just complete BS. I explained Why those guys lost like they did but i did say Pac did what he had to do and what he should have done, run right over them. Had Oscar stuck around in that fight to say a decision, that would have made Manny look bad. But he didn't so Manny did what he should have done, ended it. But because of how these guys came in i can't call him great cause they weren't great.

Slik- "please enlighten me with this "style makes fight" theory of yours.

Fact is, Barrera's style is made to beat someone like Pac. Barrera has always been a counter puncher with one big shot can end the fight. According to you, Pac is predictable which is ofcoarse a counter puncher's dream. It is much easier to counter a predictable brawler like Manny (according to you) than to counter someone as technically sound as Marquez.

Hatton came in moving forward against Manny---- fact
Hatton came in moving forward against PBF------- fact

Hatton has done the same shit in all his fights yet you still fail to give Pac some credit with the BEATING he gave Hatton. NO ONE prior to the Manny fight has made Hatton look that amateur. Not Paul M, not PBF.

How can you claim to be expressing facts when the basis of your argument is that Pac lost to Marquez twice which is guess what, you're OPINION!"

I shouldn't have to explain styles makes fight to a fight fan. Yes Barrera's style IS made for Pac and you seen that thru Marquez who I SAID fights like Barrera and they have similar styles. In the first fight he didn't do that, Barrera tried to brawl and beat him to the punch instead, he lost. The second fight he was washed up. Even washed up what do you get when two counter puncher's like him and Marquez face each other??? I don't care if he is old, it's still not going to lead to a blowout like someone aggressive and fast like Pac whose in his prime and throws first. Yes he crushed Hatton more than Floyd, yet again styles make fights. I'm not even sure why i have to explain this. Floyd sits back and picks his shots. Pac comes forward and will hit Hatton before Hatton throws a punch so coming in head first hands down is a worse formula against Pac than Floyd....obviously being that Floyd will counter. And again we all said Hatton was overrated prior to this, i just thought they would come in with a smarter game plan, basically anything other than what they did. Don't twist my words either. When i say facts i'm talking about Oscar and Hatton and how they came in not me saying Marquez won the fights.

lil-" Cruz you'll forever be known as the pacman hater. For you to say he's not a "great fighter" makes you a hater, and you saying he was "outclassed" in the first Marquez fight further proves that you are. Don't be ashamed man, we all have those fighters we love to hate. You just happened to hate one of the most exciting, hardworking, sensible, down to earth fighters in the sport."

So saying he's not a great fighter because he hasn't beaten anyone i consider a great fighter who were still in their prime makes me a hater? The guy does nothing for me to hate, he spends all his money on his country with people lined up at his door while he gives out money. Why the heck would i hate that? What i don't like as with anyone is when people place fighters on a pedestal like they're greater than they've proven....Hatton for instance. Same thing. I couldn't stand the way everyone thought he was so great but he hadn't done anything to prove it then he steps up and gets exposed and completely outclassed by Floyd, a real great fighter. But i like Hatton outside the ring cause he makes himself a regular guy with the fans and very accessible. It's the same exact thing with Pac.

So everyone can keep calling me a hater and keep ignoring the fact that i just want him to fight someone who has proved to be a great fighter, that's not washed up, and win. It's that simple and it seems to me that it's more of nuthugging going on here cause anyone whose actually READ AND UNDERSTOOD my posts from the beginning can comprehend what i'm saying instead of feeling offended that i'm "bashing" their man crush. lol

[War Munchies!]

Cruz I can tell you're a hater cuz you don't even give Pacquiao credit for the 2nd fight with Marquez. JMM is your boy and you consider him #1 P4P but regardless of who you had winning, Pac gave him a hell of a fight and it was way too close to complain. This coupled with his destruction of Hatton and Oscar along with his domination of Barrera (washed up, bad game plans, whatever it's still impressive) is enough to warrant classifying him as a great fighter. I know you think he will get exposed but until that happens you should stop acting like it's a done deal.

That said, there were a lot of Pacman nut huggers in this thread who really haven't made any good points.

[Cruz1014]

Cruz I can tell you're a hater cuz you don't even give Pacquiao credit for the 2nd fight with Marquez. JMM is your boy and you consider him #1 P4P but regardless of who you had winning, Pac gave him a hell of a fight and it was way too close to complain. This coupled with his destruction of Hatton and Oscar along with his domination of Barrera (washed up, bad game plans, whatever it's still impressive) is enough to warrant classifying him as a great fighter. I know you think he will get exposed but until that happens you should stop acting like it's a done deal.

That said, there were a lot of Pacman nut huggers in this thread who really haven't made any good points.

I had Marquez winning that second fight as did most. But yea i guess he has to get credit for giving a good fight to the guy i deem #1 p4p (before Floyd's return). But in my eyes he didn't win that fight, so just because you give great fighters a tough fight can't make you great if you always come up short which he did imo. I already gave him credit for destroying the two you mentioned but that's not enough to label him great because of those intangibles. Just about anyone decent could've done that. Amir destroyed Barrera because he's washed up that doesn't make Amir great cause he beat a has-been. All i want the guy to do is beat a notable fighter today. Seems that him and Floyd will end up meeting barring a Marquez spoiler which isn't out of the questions. His performance in that fight will show what kind of fighter he is but he's still gonna have to win against a high caliber opponent to be labeled great in my book not just give good fights and lose.

And i don't know what better way to put it than the Hatton example i already gave. Both are great guys outside the ring which i respect a great deal i just don't like guys considered great before proving it by beating those great fighters, that's it.

[lionking]

lol at the pac-wagon jumping up on Cruz for not being a manny-lover. i think pac is great, but at this time there are too many arguable #1p4p fighters to have the guy crowned undisputed. if he beats the winner of marquez-mayweather, then there really can be no argument against him being the best and anyone who disagrees will deserve to be attacked by the crazed pac-wagon.

[lil j]

Hatton was the reigning 140lb champ for over 4 years, no one had ever dominated him in that manner, not even Floyd. Hatton may be over-rated, but that still was a GREAT win. I mean what do you want the guy to do! He was the first guy to stop Morales, and he did it twice. He dominated Barrera, when he was in his prime. Regardless of the circumstances behind that fight, he still crushed Barrera, and he beat Barrera in a much more decisive manner than JMM did. The Barrera/JMM fight was MUCH closer than what the scorecards had it. Pac won the second JMM
fight, whether we think he did or not. Honestly, I think the first fight being ruled a draw was a gift for JMM, but I'm not a judge.

You can't say Pac isn't a "great" fighter, because he most certainly is. If Pac isn't a great fighter, then neither are Barrera(who he crushed, while he was a "prime fighter"), Morales(he was the first and only guy to ever stop him), JMM, or Hatton, all who are sure fire HOFers.

[Cruz1014]

Hatton was the reigning 140lb champ for over 4 years, no one had ever dominated him in that manner, not even Floyd. Hatton may be over-rated, but that still was a GREAT win. I mean what do you want the guy to do! He was the first guy to stop Morales, and he did it twice. He dominated Barrera, when he was in his prime. Regardless of the circumstances behind that fight, he still crushed Barrera, and he beat Barrera in a much more decisive manner than JMM did. The Barrera/JMM fight was MUCH closer than what the scorecards had it. Pac won the second JMM
fight, whether we think he did or not. Honestly, I think the first fight being ruled a draw was a gift for JMM, but I'm not a judge.

You can't say Pac isn't a "great" fighter, because he most certainly is. If Pac isn't a great fighter, then neither are Barrera(who he crushed, while he was a "prime fighter"), Morales(he was the first and only guy to ever stop him), JMM, or Hatton, all who are sure fire HOFers.

I've already and repeatedly told you guys who i'd like to see him fight. Morales BEAT Pac their first meeting then when Morales was on his decline Pac won, EVERYONE knows this. I guess Raheem is great too? Yes he beat Barrera coming out of nowhere and Barrera not fighting like Barrera does and completely brawling. Most probably would have because of the unknown with him. I'm not even gonna go there again with comparing JMM/Barrera and Pac/Barrera, i don't know why people here aren't grasping the styles thing, it's the most common mistake people always make. Hatton is a great win? I guess if he were to knock out Augustus that would be a great win too because he gives EVERYONE headache when he fights them.

[slik]

IThat style's make fight excuse you keep bringing up makes no sense. Let's break down the "styles" shall we?

According to you, Pac is predictable, over agreesive so someone like Barrera a counter puncher, should have no problem with.

According to you, Barrera and Marquez have similar styles. So I'm guessing when two counter punchers meet, the faster counter puncher who is "better at everything" should be able to dominate the "old, slow, washed up" fighter?

The fact that you use "Barrera didn't fight his fight" as an EXCUSE against Manny for the first fight alone makes it obvious you're just a hater. What was Pac suppose to do at that first fight? Stop punching and tell MAB to stop brawling and counter him?

And that's because I'm not even a big fan of Pacman... I picked ODLH to beat him, and I still think PBF is too good defensively for him. But to say Manny isn't a great fighter because he hasn't beaten fighters 2-3 weight classes above him is just crazy. Outside that Pac fights, who has Marquez beaten that you already labeled him a great fighter?

[slik]

lol at the pac-wagon jumping up on Cruz for not being a manny-lover. i think pac is great, but at this time there are too many arguable #1p4p fighters to have the guy crowned undisputed. if he beats the winner of marquez-mayweather, then there really can be no argument against him being the best and anyone who disagrees will deserve to be attacked by the crazed pac-wagon.

The thing is were not even arguing about the P4P list. IMO Cotto is number one P4P. I think the argument here is just some people refuse to give Pac credit for his wins. Not against the Barrera fights, not the Hatton fight.

On another note, I would like to congratulate everyone on this nice little debate going on here, Cruz especially. Too many debate ends up with personal attacks and insults. More debates like this one is needed.

[Cruz1014]

IThat style's make fight excuse you keep bringing up makes no sense. Let's break down the "styles" shall we?

According to you, Pac is predictable, over agreesive so someone like Barrera a counter puncher, should have no problem with.

According to you, Barrera and Marquez have similar styles. So I'm guessing when two counter punchers meet, the faster counter puncher who is "better at everything" should be able to dominate the "old, slow, washed up" fighter?

The fact that you use "Barrera didn't fight his fight" as an EXCUSE against Manny for the first fight alone makes it obvious you're just a hater. What was Pac suppose to do at that first fight? Stop punching and tell MAB to stop brawling and counter him?

And that's because I'm not even a big fan of Pacman... I picked ODLH to beat him, and I still think PBF is too good defensively for him. But to say Manny isn't a great fighter because he hasn't beaten fighters 2-3 weight classes above him is just crazy. Outside that Pac fights, who has Marquez beaten that you already labeled him a great fighter?

Yes great debate but too long. lol

Anyway for the last time.........I NEVER SHITTED ON PAC FOR DOING HIS JOB. I said Barrera came in with no respect for Pac because he was pretty unknown in the first fight and he went against his style of countering and tried to straight up brawl and nothing else. Him fighting outside of his style is not an opinion, it's a fact because he didn't. And just like i said for the Oscar and Hatton fight Pac did his job and beat down the guys that messed up coming into those fights. I've said that about 3 times at least.

Marquez fought the names at those times. Peden was when Marquez started really making his move. Peden a guy who handed Nate Campbell his ass twice, the same Campbell who recently was a Lightweight champion, a real one. Hell even before that he fought Norwood for one of the titles in a fight he lost but was a big step up at the time. That's another fight people feel was closer than it was scored. He mopped the floor with Gainer who later beat Norwood (again styles make fights). Gainer wasn't great but he was still a prospect. Then Marquez faced the man everyone considered the best in that division later on in Chris John and got raped a decision with some hometown cooking. He went on to stop Juan Diaz as everyone knows as well as Casamayor and Juarez. Tersak or however you spell it was another fighter everyone was high on that he mauled. With that his what i consider his wins over Pac make him great. He cleaned out the divisions and proved he was the best boxer there. I'm sure there's more i'm forgetting too.

Pac got beat, no controversy, against a prime Morales. Then beat Morales when he took a downslide starting with Raheem. I've already explained the others. Diaz was actually a good win. He's never been anything special and never beat anyone but Pac came up in weight and beat him too so he gets props for that lopsided win cause Diaz fought like Diaz does and is in his prime and was outclassed and exposed.

Like i've been saying before i get all Pac-gitty i just want him to beat a very good fighter wherever. Whether it be Marquez again at 140, Floyd, Cotto, or Mosely. I just think he's getting too much credit for wins that were not hard for him as long as he trained because his opponents weren't on their game or whatever. He's going to get his chance to put himself on greatness by the end of the year and if he does i won't be arguing, i'll simply say he's a great fighter.

This hate thing has to stop, everyone who says that chooses to ignore how i praised the guy for his outside of the ring kindness. I don't hate a man that does that.

Now i'm seriously done beating a deadhorse cause i keep feeling like i have to repeat myself when i've made my point over and over again and it has never really been proven otherwise except for the debate on whether he beat Marquez which me and whoever thinks he won either fight will have to agree to disagree on. But i base part of my opinion of him on that, he lost both.

[slik]

Thats the thing though... you want Pac to fight guys 2-3 weight classes above him to be even considered "great". Mosley Vs Pac? Really? That's like PBF fighting Paul Williams... It just won't happen... Yes Pac fought at 147 before but the size difference would just be too much for ANYONE including Pac.

You and I both consider Marquez a great fighter. IMO he's no different from Manny. Yes he's fought top competition, so has Manny, they've both lose some of those fights... Both has fought some fighters pass their prime. They really need to fight a third time, that's no question, but the fight needs to happen when the time is right. They both needed to fight other fighters to hype the trilogy. Look at Pavlik rematch... Almost no interest in that second fight because they fought right after the first.

I just don't agree that Pac has to beat those three names to be considered "great"

[lil j]

I've already and repeatedly told you guys who i'd like to see him fight.

So you want him to fight guys that are 10+lbs heavier?


Morales BEAT Pac their first meeting then when Morales was on his decline Pac won, EVERYONE knows this. I guess Raheem is great too?


Pac STOPPED Morales twice, and he's the only fighter to ever STOP him. That's the difference.

Yes he beat Barrera coming out of nowhere and Barrera not fighting like Barrera does and completely brawling. Most probably would have because of the unknown with him. I'm not even gonna go there again with comparing JMM/Barrera and Pac/Barrera, i don't know why people here aren't grasping the styles thing, it's the most common mistake people always make. Hatton is a great win?


Because Pac is an agressive boxer, a counter punchers dream right? But Pac beat both, and your hate towards pac the FIGHTER, blinds you. Regardless of how Barrera fought he LOST, no excuses. That again, WAS a GREAT win.

Those JMM fights were ultra close and competitive, and the judges ruled Pac the winner of the 2nd, so that again was a GREAT win, no matter how anyone else scored it.

Beating Hatton IS a great win. The guy was the undisputed 140lb champ for over 4 years.

I guess if he were to knock out Augustus that would be a great win too because he gives EVERYONE headache when he fights them.


Augustus has never held a world title, horrible comparison, and not a very convincing counter argument. KOing Hatton in two rounds is a great win I already stated why, no reason for me to repeat it.

[Cruz1014]

Thats the thing though... you want Pac to fight guys 2-3 weight classes above him to be even considered "great". Mosley Vs Pac? Really? That's like PBF fighting Paul Williams... It just won't happen... Yes Pac fought at 147 before but the size difference would just be too much for ANYONE including Pac.

You and I both consider Marquez a great fighter. IMO he's no different from Manny. Yes he's fought top competition, so has Manny, they've both lose some of those fights... Both has fought some fighters pass their prime. They really need to fight a third time, that's no question, but the fight needs to happen when the time is right. They both needed to fight other fighters to hype the trilogy. Look at Pavlik rematch... Almost no interest in that second fight because they fought right after the first.

I just don't agree that Pac has to beat those three names to be considered "great"

I was just throwing names out. He doesn't have to fight weights above, there's Chris John but he would have to go back down some. I said wherever meaning whatever weight. What's the difference between Mosely and Oscar? Oscar had arguments of winning both of those fights. Mosely can make 147 still as he's shown and be comfortable unlike Oscar. Manny had no issues making 147. Floyd comes down to 145. Cotto would have to be at 147 but again Manny had no problem going there for Oscar, what's the difference? Any of these fights would be fine but he won't go back down so we have to look higher, it's not my choice of weightclasses i just know he will only go after big names now and John isn't one although he's very good. So i put out names i know he'd be willing to get in with. Marquez has already made it loud and clear he wants the third fight but Manny is unwilling. I don't think they need to wait for anything. Look at Israel vs. Rafael the trilogy, fotys. Never lost interest. I think Manny sees the risk is losing to Marquez and losing the chance for big money fights like Floyd. Not necessarily scared of him but just thinking business first, if that makes sense. But like i said before he'll get a chance to really shine soon enough.

[slik]

Marquez/Vasquez was fight of the year material but how much money was made from it? Only the hardcore fans tune in to watch the trilogy.

ODLH is the one that wanted the fight with Manny. He didn't NEED to fight him but it was offered, Roach felt good about the match up, ODLH is the biggest draw in boxing.... It would have been foolish to turn that fight down. Mosley and Cotto combined is not the draw ODLH is. A fight with PBF would break all kinds of PPV records so I could see that fight happening. I don't think I could say the same about Pac/Mosley

Nothing new in boxing really... Everyone knows that PBF/Cotto or PBF/Williams would be more competitive but the big money fight is PBF/Pac. Can't blame them really for taking the bigger money fights than the more competitive fights.

[Cruz1014]

I know that's why i said he's looking at the business prospect otherwise he does have other fights out there at LW or just WW. Especially with Marquez again.

[what the?]

Speaking of Rafael Marquez, I see he has a fight later this month. Whats going on with Israel? His eye still jacked?

[Cruz1014]

I thought i read he was cleared a couple weeks back somewhere and supposedly he's training getting ready to fight some time.

[jasonkl]

here are some pretty cool numbers regarding the two Pacquiao-Marquez fights, and shows just how close they have been.

The fighters fought 24 rounds, which means three judges scored a total of 72 rounds. Of those, 41 were won by Marquez, 31 by Pacquiao. Meanwhile, Pacquiao has the edge in actual points – 679-678.

The fact that Pacquiau won just 1 more point over 24 rounds judged by 3 judges in both fights shows that neither guy proved to be better then the other. Marquez won more rounds, while Pacquia had a bunch of knockdowns.

Freddie Roach also said he is rooting for Marquez to beat Mayweather because he wants the 3rd fight with Marquez, and also thinks Mayweather is a tougher style matchup for Manny then Marquez, Cotto, or Mosley

[slik]

here are some pretty cool numbers regarding the two Pacquiao-Marquez fights, and shows just how close they have been.

The fighters fought 24 rounds, which means three judges scored a total of 72 rounds. Of those, 41 were won by Marquez, 31 by Pacquiao. Meanwhile, Pacquiao has the edge in actual points – 679-678.

The fact that Pacquiau won just 1 more point over 24 rounds judged by 3 judges in both fights shows that neither guy proved to be better then the other. Marquez won more rounds, while Pacquia had a bunch of knockdowns.

Freddie Roach also said he is rooting for Marquez to beat Mayweather because he wants the 3rd fight with Marquez, and also thinks Mayweather is a tougher style matchup for Manny then Marquez, Cotto, or Mosley


Wow.... The fact that Roach WANTS a rematch with Marquez almost guarantees that well see the Trilogy.

I hope Marquez embarasses PBF

[Cruz1014]

When did he say that? On Friday Night Fights i heard the interview where he says they're not waiting for Floyd and mentioned some other names like Cotto, Mosely, and a couple from the division. But they don't want to fight at 147 they want around 143 or something which i don't think Mosely or Cotto will be so comfortable now. He then said about Floyd after that. I don't remember him saying they wanted a Marquez rematch though. Thinks will play out in the next month or month and a half i'm sure for his next step.

[jasonkl]

When did he say that? On Friday Night Fights i heard the interview where he says they're not waiting for Floyd and mentioned some other names like Cotto, Mosely, and a couple from the division. But they don't want to fight at 147 they want around 143 or something which i don't think Mosely or Cotto will be so comfortable now. He then said about Floyd after that. I don't remember him saying they wanted a Marquez rematch though. Thinks will play out in the next month or month and a half i'm sure for his next step.

that was from the ringonline. and he did say that he doesn't want manny to fight shane or cotto at 147, he wants them to come down to around 143 or maybe 144. It sounded like mosley wouldn't be able to get down, but Cotto might. He was also talking about taking a fight prior to the winner of vasquez-mayweather. They mentioned Valero, but said he might be too big of a risk and too little of a reward.

[slik]

that was from the ringonline. and he did say that he doesn't want manny to fight shane or cotto at 147, he wants them to come down to around 143 or maybe 144. It sounded like mosley wouldn't be able to get down, but Cotto might. He was also talking about taking a fight prior to the winner of vasquez-mayweather. They mentioned Valero, but said he might be too big of a risk and too little of a reward.

I think Valero might be the best fighter at that weight class but I don't think we'll ever find out for the same reason you just said.